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 Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again

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mario782
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PostSubject: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:39 pm

Let me just start by saying how awesome Lightsworns are...[VERY]Exclamation cheers 

HONEST[ly] I do believe that Lightsworns will once again become a Top Tier deck by next format and here are a few reasons why:


+Lumina and Necro Gardna at 3:woot: joyyy 
-Lightsworns have gotten a boost with the moving of Necro Gardna[formerly on Limited list] and Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner[formerly on Semi-Limited list] to the Unlimited list as of March 1, 2013, which I must say was a Great idea...good job KONAMI for finally doing something right..3 necro Gardna allows me to stall until i can mill out enough light monsters to bring out the ULTIMATE JUDGMENT DRAGON, or even Lightray Diabolos, and last but obviously not least Black Luster Soldier- Envoy of the Beginning, and not to leave out Lumina which allows for all types of rank 3 and even sometimes rank 4 xyz

+And all the meta decks from this format are all most likely going to get hit by the next banlist[ E-Drags, Mermails, Prophecy, Fire Fist, etc.]. Cool 

heres a link for my LS build http://i.imgur.com/VE7vnSg.png
It actually works quite well b/c it mills out rather quickly I have a load of options from rank 3 xyz with lumina to a first turn JD, Diabolos, or even BLS
+plus with 2 wulf it makes it easier to xyz into rank 4 monsters

well thanks for reading my post and don't be to shy to leave comments, which I'm sure you're not lol



I'm sure I there are more reasons that Lightsworns are awesome that I didn't list and you can post those in the comments...and I'm also sure that there are some who disagree with this post; you should also free to leave your comments
and Thanks again Very Happy 



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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:28 pm

gl with that

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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:05 pm

I've been waiting for someone to make a post where I can actually have a say in.
Disclaimer: Most my posts are very long if you don't wish to actually engage in a discussion about this topic, don't bother to read this.

1: Lightsworns were "good" back in the tele-DAD era. When e-tele, malicious, d-draw, and DAD were all hit in the same banlist, Lightsworns were supposed to be the "big" deck. They had triple CotLB, triple lumina, triple necro gardna, etc. They were "top tier".

List below at the time.
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/March_2009_Lists

2: Just because a deck is not top tier doesn't mean it isn't good.
Paul Cooper plays Hieratics all day every day. It's a good deck. Very all-in-ish. Good. Not top tier. He still tops.
Jeff Jones created Psoil. Good deck. Top 2'd early in the format before prophecy/dragon ruler/mermails. Wasn't top tier.
Billy Brake, 17-1 while testing out Constellars, great deck. you could argue it's top tier but. meh.
Then again top tier doesn't mean it's that good. i.e. Lightsworns March 2009, Mermail @NAWCQ, Madolche's in OCG.

3:

I was a competitive duelist IRL at the time and started to play cat synchro after e-tele hit one. I still have four copies of emergency teleport in my binder right now but psoil is just not that great right now. ANYWAYS. tangent. back to the main point.



Lightsworns never were able to pull it off.

One, consistency. SURE they had CotLB @3, but what? solar recharge was great yea, but so what? lumina was @3, but where is the domination? where is the consistency? out the window. Why? Wulf is a bad card. Necro gardna was a dead card in hand. JD too early was a waste. Chance to mill power cards. Only one decent tuner for the deck, psz. They never had an ability to access all the card in the deck, even with milling.

Two, boss monster. JD. That's it. their grind game? garoth 1850. jain only when attacking. rely on honest to protect until JD. JD gone? hard to win the game. Celestia? uhuh. tribute summoning without a frog engine really isn't that viable. Wulf, in hand is dead, you have to mill it. You see those monster reincarnations you're running with that beckoning light? That's how they tried to fix it back then too. Because they were so reliant.

Three, speed. They were slow. usually just one normal summon/set. relying on ryko first turn set unless they were able to mill a wulf. and even then, not many options. get hit by a cold wave? nop, no more draw/search, that wulf will be in your hand, whatever. other decks outplayed them like crazy.
Sure they were able to top a few times but they could never finish it out because they were so inconsistent, slow, and boss monster reliant. Sort of like the old prophecy without judgment and still running high priestess.



And why they aren't going to be viable in the near future?

1, even more inconsistent. CotLB@1, rota@1, honest@1, plague@1. running triple necro gardna or more than one wulf? get those in hand? you're probably going to lose. If you open broke as hell? good for you. Your opponent can open broke too. And in more games. There's no way of using all your cards to full potential.

2, reliable boss monsters. Okay okay I understand now you have xyz's. But what swarm potential do you have? Lumina? Solar recharge and hope you mill wulf's? That's it. Lightrays? Only work after a certain point in the game. Useless until that point (and underwhelming). You XYZ's consist of, maybe a rank 3 cuz of lumina, mainly rank 4, and that's about it. JD is the closest thing to an "amazing card" in a lightsworn deck. Have more than one in hand early? What do? Mill them? What now? Have one and you think it's perfect? Effect veiler is a card. Breakthrough skill is a card. warning/judgment, soo many ways of stopping it. And then you're left with nothing.

3, speed. inb4 mermails/constellars/psoil/madolche barely/don't get touched by the ban list. You have to run so many monsters in your deck and a must have spell line up you barely have any room to side/run backrow. Mermails will pop and otk, constellars will drop a huge f-bomb with pleiades set 4 or other shenanigans. psoil will do a better job at milling and controlling the grave and swarm the field with synchros. madolche will do what madolches do and litter the field with better rank 4's and 3's than you. and all these decks are more consistent. Karakuri's will still be in the picture and will overwhelm you with their insane field presence. One ophion and you're probably dead without a honest. you get the picture. You mention stalling. That is, if you mill necro. and you only have necro. maybe an honest.

4, necro is not a good enough card. you have to mill it. it cant be in your hand. there are better cards that net you a better advantage. battle fader in anti-meta monarchs/swift scarecrow to counter otk.
5, first turn plays. Need card trooper/cotlb/solar recharge with good mills in order to do something significant. otherwise, set ryko and it's over. proceed to get overwhelmed turn 2.

6, advantage. you got barely any plus's. lyla is +1, lumina can be a +1, solar recharge can be a +1/+2 but very rarely, ryko can be a 0/+1/+2 but very rarely because if you set your opponent knows it's a ryko, JD is obviously a + if you get it out. garoth can +, celestia is a hard to do +1.

7, Side deck. You HAVE to run your set of monsters. 3 lumina, a other lightsworns. You have to run your "engine" of recharge/cotlb to try and make your deck consistent. either run backrow or backrow removal or you get stomped. most likely you need JD. where are you going to side? and what? siding in hand traps is just going to reduce the times you get key cards in hand. siding in backrow means you cant play grind game with a few monsters and less "good mills". Opponents can just side hard on you. All they need is light-imprisoning mirror. macro cosmos/dimensional fissure will KILL you.


Lightsworns have always been this deck that, oh hell yea, if i can get this and this, this game is all set, but in reality, it's slow and inconsistent. relying on mills instead of relying on toolboxing your deck is just plain stupid. ask tenystheia who used to play lightsworns irl.
Unless lightsworns get a dedicated xyz/jowgen level bullshit/search engine like judgment/some major cards that generate advantage, they'll always be mediocre at best. Open decent, have a chance to win. Open terrible, scoop it up in a minute.

My suggestion to you if you do really want to play lightsworns is to play a lightsworn engine with solar recharge and cotlb with a deck that can manipulate the graveyard. nothing says "i need cards in my hand and the right cards in my hand" than lightsworns (well 6sams but w.e)
Despite all the things I said about lightsworns so far, I do agree that their playstyle is unique and awesome, just not something that is very geared toward "consistency". In this day and age, if you're not opening broke at least 75-100% of the time, you're behind the rest.

IMO the banlist will obviously hit spellbook in some way, dragon rulers in some way.
Tier list after the banlist? (leaving out the two^ depends on how hard they get hit)
T1: Constellar/Mermails or some new deck in the new packs.
T2: Psoil/Madolche/Evilswarms

IF I offended anyone anywhere in this post, feel free to leave a response below to tell me. I know I've had issues in the past with people in this academy who take offense of the way I explain myself and I would gladly take my time to issue a sincere apology.
I'll leave it to all of you who read my post whether or not to agree with what I've said (tier list aside because of all the controversy that brings to the table all the time) and formulate an opinion for yourselves. If you need any thing else just ask me!
And of course, respect the OP's and my opinion at all times Very Happy thanks! (and also disregard any typos made in this post. I'm lying down in a hotel in Venice late at night hehehe xD)
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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:45 pm

yeas i agree


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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:20 pm

Hi. Agree entirely with FutureOracle. I think the biggest drawback is consistency and ultimately, its success just isn't going to happen. Even if it does find some marginal success, it won't be "top tier."
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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:48 pm

FutureOracle...you deserve a medal for that. Congratulations, you have officially left an impression of awesomeness on me forever.
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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:53 pm

why cant we like posts on here?
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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:04 pm

First, just to make it clear, you guys do know that tier is defined by how much it is played. Now having read Oracle's post, well done, well done indeed.

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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:56 pm

That was an amazing response...I promise to make an equally awesome response, but it's kind of getting late, and I'm glad you responded, also hope to have a duel with you sometime to see if I can change your mind[probably won't be able to], but doesn't hurt tryin' lol...and thnx again for the response:D

to everyone and FutureOracle[especially]

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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:19 am

Lightsworns..I doubt will be top tier. I've seen some very good non-meta decks which can shutdown Lightsworns as if they were nothing.

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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:05 pm

Honestly imo Lightsworns can shut themselves down lul.
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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:17 pm

y do ppl down talk lightworns they can be a relly good deck Sad out of all my decks my Lightworns r my best

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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:32 pm

I agree with u all lightsworn is a pretty good deck that shouldn't be put down but there are some decks that can easily shout it down. (hinata call me later u know the number Cool  Cool  Cool  Cool  Cool  Cool )

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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:35 pm

I will say this: If lightsworns are so bad why do ppl like to ban them from tournaments????
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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:11 pm

They don't.
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PostSubject: Re: Lightsworns will be the Top Tier once again   Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:14 am

the only reason lightsworns do well is because they have JD. the deck itself is bad.

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