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 Skill in YuGiOh

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Utopia Legend
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PostSubject: Skill in YuGiOh    Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:24 am

I enter alot of tournaments and you want to know the one thing i always find missing in most of them. The actual skill of playing this game. These days players that actually duel with skill stand no chance against the decks of these ages. Mainly because you cant get a hit on any duelist on DN using decks like them. If you think about it the YuGiOh world is falling down a steep slope of players that actually know how to play this game and have been playing it for years. With todays decks my brother who has never played a day in his life could easily hop on DN, netdeck I dont know lets say fire kings and BAM he wins like 8 straight and the only time he will lose is when he duels another deck like his. Not taking anything away from the player who everyone is net decking it from i mean in order to think of combos and a list like that you have some skill but i guess thats why everyone and there sister has your deck. Anyway when you enter a tournament what are they top 3 decks you see. I myself duel alot of FireFist/King decks and the occasional Elemental Dragon deck. Most of the time I do fine because i have certain decks that can counter them for the most part but alot of the time im stuck between a rock and a hard place. No one knows how to make there own decks these days. Ive grown so used to seeing the same decks on DN that ive thought about going to the suggestions box on the DN forums and saying why dont the admins just netdeck a bunch of tier one decks every format and just give people the option between them because in the end thats what happens to over half the players on there anyway. All of them are like i want to win at all costs but in my opinion a skilled win is alot better than a cheap win. I dueled this person about 10 minutes ago and the first question i asked them was what site did your deck come from and want to know the response i got. I got " Oh i got it from Shriek" i asked what shriek was and they explained it as an OCG deck site that has a bunch of OCG decklists already planned out and been tested. THIS WAS IN A DN TOURNY. At least this person could admit it was netdecked how many of you have asked where they got there obviously netdecked decks and gotten the response oh I built it. I call them out on it when i get that and i tell them that i dueled the exact list 2 matches ago because i probably did. The skill of players these days has dropped by tonssssss. I know everyone that reads this is going to be like hey i play with skill and that maybe but admit it everyone at least once has netdecked or gotten a skeleton from a deck i mean come on we are all curious and want that easy win i mean here i netdecked this one http://i.imgur.com/YaUkwcG.png. I never use this deck but still its netdecked but thats the only deck that is netdecked in my list. I have like 10 decks on DN. Its ok for ideas and stuff but when your taking the deck just to have a deck and win with it to my eyes its cheating but when they have the nerve to tell you they built it i mean hell i could post a deck up online and garuntee if it was good enough someone would take it ide duel it and theyd tell me they made it. The point is this game has been on a down fall ever since the beginning of the 5Ds era maybe the middle of it but still its only going to get worse from here. Heres my advice buckle up and prepare yourselves because ill tell you one thing this ride is only going to get worse and worse and we all ride it wheather it be for fun or competition we do it together so if we have to duel together please duel with skill and dont use someone elses deck. This is my weekly rant.

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PostSubject: Re: Skill in YuGiOh    Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:41 am

Thank You for Summarizing it.

Yu-Gi-Oh the way I see it is mostly luck and some what skill. You have the chance to play around with the different strategies you have concocted but you leave it to chance to get the cards you want.

Most of the people in the game are mostly are concerned about winning so they will play ANY deck that guarantees them victory even if it means net decking. Sometimes you have to get with the times play a deck you're not comfortable with.

Net Decking has some positives and some negatives.

Positives
It helps people who are curious about an archetype or so get a feel of what its like and if they like it, they can experiment with it. If not, move on.

It gives you some ideas. Checking out other people's decks gives you that "Oh, that would be a good idea/makes sense" moment that can improve your decks.

Negatives
It doesn't expand your own knowledge about the deck and you're jumping into the game blind

Its not a deck you can call your own.

I know fighting the same deck is never fun, but you also have to remember that it is also a competition and nobody is denied from making their own decisions. Its not fun losing and its never fun losing to a deck you see 100 times. Just play with friends or make your deck competitive (forcibly if possible)

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PostSubject: Re: Skill in YuGiOh    Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:46 am

i think that youre missing some points...
1) the "meta" decks win because the skilled players use them because they know its the best. that doesnt mean they are no longer skilled.

2) fire kings are not meta... not even close. if youre playing seriously in this format you should have 6-8 cards in your side just for mermails. almost all of which will also crush decks like DW or fire king, as they are both graveyard decks. fire kings are really easy to shut down. 1 dfi or
soul drain and the whole deck dies.

3) just because you netdeck doesnt make you bad, i netdeck stuff a lot just because i want to see how his/her version works compared to mine, or to test a deck out. it doesnt make me bad, it just means i know i cant figure out every build the deck is capable of so i look to ones that won tournaments and try to figure out why.(fyi, shriek.twoday.net is an OCG website that has all japanese tournament results & deckprofiles, as well as everything related to OCG, new sets & contents, new structure decks, new starter decks, etc)

4) it is only true that you can netdeck some broken deck and win a lot at a lower/amateur level. if youre playing competitively then netdecking an archetype youve never seen/used will get you no where. i guarantee someone whose only been playing yugioh for a month(i realize your "my brother..." comment was metaphorical) cant go on shriek, grab Ryo's insane mermail deck and start beating everybody. _I_ probably couldnt grab it and win as much with it as i can with my own merm deck. you will never play as well with something you netdeck as something you built and tested and modified yourself. you know everything about a deck that YOU made. irl my chaos dragons are the only deck ive played/will play, i know them well enough i can take 3 or 4 cards from my starting hand and just know exactly what im looking for/want to get before drawing the rest of the hand. the plays come to you instantly when its your deck.
netdecking is not advantageous, the only reason you do it is to figure out another players thought process or to learn an archetype.


I am a firm believer that if you can win a major tournament you are really really good. regardless of what deck is broken.

Lastly, at your skill degrading post 5ds comment, i would agree the format has sped up HUGELY since synchros(and now xyz) came out, but i would also like to mention that Tele-dad was considered one of the 2 most skill-based formats the game has ever had. and that was the first synchro format.
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PostSubject: Re: Skill in YuGiOh    Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:42 pm

Hm, i do agree with chees, also you don't seem to like fire kings do you? except, 6-8 cards for mermails? really? isn't that a little much? i mean you should be siding against fire fist and prophecy too no?

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PostSubject: Re: Skill in YuGiOh    Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:07 pm

i have nothing against fire king, but i do feel they are very subpar compared to the meta.
and no not really, as they help against other decks too. 3 banisher/dfi/macro(also work vs fire king/dw, macro is iffy vs edrag) 2-4 combination of mind crush/debunk(also work vs DW, proph, fire fist) and sometimes other choice cards. mermails(until edrag come out) are hands down the best deck. if you looked at ycs austin like 14 mermail players made top32, and EVERYONE was siding huge #s of cards for them. prophecy you side maybe 2-3 droll & lock just for they going first(asuming DN play, ocg incl) and mind/debunk possibly for if you go first. fire fist you only need 2 overworked and the mind crush youre siding anyways. thats like 12-14 cards and it covers dw, proph, fire fist/king, merm, edrag. you might also put in 2-3 maxx C for merms or windups. thats a side for almost the entire meta, and yes. 6-8 for mermails are included. im not saying thats a perfect side, but its reasonably good and has something for all the decks.
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PostSubject: Re: Skill in YuGiOh    Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:39 pm

oh sorry i kinda meant the other guy Very Happy but yes you do make valid points.

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PostSubject: Re: Skill in YuGiOh    Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:49 pm

There are some valid points here made by everyone who posted. But even still, I feel the need to argue against the main point.

Utopia, you're absolutely right. Skill in YGO has seemed to been replaced with a lot of lucky draws and a lot of over-powered cards. But that doesn't draw everyone in the community into the boat with them.

I know, I know. You're more likely to face Meta, or some deck with a gimmick to it; or, for God's sake...Harpies.

But even still, there are those who don't use Meta decks. People that lay in front of the deck building screen coming up with new idea's for decks and combinations.

No, they don't make up the vast majority of the community, like most Meta's and Troll's do. But the same could be said for any gaming community.

But what's important is that we stare past those decks and see the game for what it truly is. The point of a TCG is to compile a vast library of almost inexhaustible resources to create an almost infinite number of decks. And when you see one of those, it makes you really remember why you started the game.

Maybe YGO is in for a bumpy ride down a very slippery slope. But I've seen enough hopeful duelists to assure that there could be a wave of ingenuity. Maybe, it could be the Industrial Revolution of Yu-Gi-Oh. A complete over-haul on decks. Where the best and brightest make cross-over decks with dazzling combo's that tie together cards from all across the generations.

And yes, luck has replaced skill in most area's. Top decking is a lot more important than consistency. But that won't be true for long. With new archetypes comes new cards. And with new cards, Konami is forced to introduce new and fantastic ways to summon monsters. Techniques that make us wonder how we ever summoned monsters otherwise. And with those techniques, deck building, the Dueling Network community, and the game of Yu-Gi-Oh itself will change drastically.

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PostSubject: Re: Skill in YuGiOh    Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:16 pm

I never said that Netdecking was bad i mean i amditted to doing it aswell but if that literally the only thing you do in this game and just when you want a new deck you netdeck it i mean come on really thats what i meant.

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